How do we achieve peace in the Middle East?
How do we achieve peace in the Middle East? More specifically, how do we achieve peace in Israel? Alice introduced me to mepeace.org, so I own her a debt of gratitude. Thank you Alice, it would appear that you are right and that there are bunches of people here that are looking for a way to find peace. Although, how do we as Jews and Palestinians forge a peace where everyone is happy? How do we stop a cycle of violence that has been going on since 1917? Almost 90 years we have been fighting over this peace of land. I used to live on a ranch in Texas that was bigger than Israel. 15 people and 10,000 head of cattle used to live and wander on a stretch of Texas, actually a little bigger than Israel is as a whole. Yet nations and some 10 million people are fighting over this piece of land I call Israel. The ranch is worth $20 million; can I buy Israel for the same and call it a day? No, I cannot. It is just not that simple. Can I say hey Jews, or hey, Palestinians I have access to a ranch the same size as Israel come live here? No, I cannot. First, the land cannot support that many people. Second, no one would come. Israel/Palestine is their home. It is where their families are buried. It is where they worship their particular G-d. Israel is the very holiest place for Jews and the 3rd or 4th holiest place for Muslims. It is also the holiest place for Christians. So how do we achieve a peace in the holy land where everyone is happy? I will get back to that question later.
All of us, Jew and Palestinian come to this room for the purpose of trying to find a way to make peace. I think that those of us, here in mepeace.org, have found that peace among ourselves. Everyday someone new comes into the organization. I am number 940. I see there are still factions among us, and some that just post articles about how evil the Jews are, and there are those who post articles on how evil the Palestinians are. There are a bunch of people who cannot see beyond the last bad thing that happened to our family. Except for Alice, I do not think there is a Jew or Palestinian that has not lost a family member, or property, or both because of this conflict. There is enough blame to go around for everyone. We have been fighting over control of this land since a British guy created the Balfour declaration, making a promise to the Jewish people that Israel will be a Jewish Homeland. Then another British guy came along with the White Papers, making a promise to give control of the land to the Arabs living here. The first major fight between us came in 1929, with what the Western history books call the Arab Uprising. Then there was the Jewish uprising, and back and forth and back and forth for the last 90 years. Prior to the British controlling the holy land, the Turks and Ottomans controlled the land. Therefore, the historical claim of the land, on both sides is weak, at best. Neither group of people prior to 1948 had majority control of the land for millennia.
Alice has brought us the story of Abir Aramin, and the work her father, Bassam, is doing with the combatants for peace to unite fighters from both side to try to find peace. The work they are doing is great and should be supported. Alice told me the other day of a video where it shows a Palestinian already in custody was shot dead by the IDF. People ask what Abir did to deserve such treatment by the IDF, to loose her life at 10 years old? She did nothing but walk out of a school. It is very sad that she had to give her life for this conflict. She did not even give it, it was taken from her she had no choice in the matter. Whether is was a bullet, a rubber bullet, a gas canister, or a rock thrown by a Palestinian (all the versions of how Abir died) it does not matter she was 10 years old and should not have died. If it were my daughter, I would be angry. I would demand to know why. I would want justice. Although, on the other side of the coin this happened; Three women were killed and at least 30 more people were injured when a bulldozer driven by a Palestinian resident of east Jerusalem trampled over pedestrians and vehicles and plowed into two buses in downtown Jerusalem at around noon Wednesday. If any of these women were my wife or daughter, I would be angry. I would demand to know why. I would want justice. The answer I would get would be that this was Israel’s fault. Israel forced this man to take a bulldozer and kill your wife. That is not true. This man worked for the city of Jerusalem. In a way, he was the government. Israel did not make him turn his bulldozer onto a crowd of people that were doing nothing more than shopping. This finger pointing can go on all day, and all night for the rest of our lives. We as Jews and Palestinians can sit here and point to what happened yesterday forever but it does not look at what we are going to do to make tomorrow better. It is intellectual dishonesty.
Alice started another thread talking about Apartheid. Jimmy Carter compared Israel to Apartheid South Africa. Apartheid is a very strong word. The main claim to the apartheid conditions in Israel from what I can tell is the checkpoints. Israel does not let Palestinians move freely throughout Israel and in and out of Gaza and the West Bank. To hear it described in the Israeli, and Palestinian media, Israel is the only country in the world that has checkpoints. To get from the ranch I mentioned earlier to where I live now I have to go through 5 checkpoints. Even in the United States, there are checkpoints where the Border Patrol and National Guard are stationed to ensure that the people going through the checkpoints have the proper permits to move through those checkpoints. They take drug dogs and bomb dogs around your vehicle looking for drugs and bombs. You have to tell these troops what you are doing, where you are going and what your purpose is. If you do not have the proper paperwork to be in the US you are arrested and sent back to where you belong. How is this any different than what is happening in Israel? If you do not have the paperwork to leave (Palestinian) or enter (Jewish) Gaza you are not allowed into Gaza. I have friends that used to own property in Gaza. It was taken away from them and they are not allowed to freely travel in Gaza. Is that apartheid on the part of Hamas? I know that one of the readers is going to say well Palestinians cannot get jobs in Israel. To answer that, I say, what about that guy who drove his bulldozer into a group of pedestrians? He had a job. Every country in the world has requirements before you are allowed to work in their country are required to agree to obey the laws of that country and get the required paperwork/permits to work there. When I lived in Turkey, I was required to carry around this little blue book everywhere I went. This blue book showed the authorities that I was in Turkey for work purposes. I am sure that there are other complaints about why Israel is an Apartheid state but I am already at 3 pages single spaced and I am not copying and pasting like some do. To call what is going on in Israel Apartheid is intellectually dishonest.
Like you said John, this thing is already 3 pages long single spaced and you have not answered the question you posed at the top of your babbling. How do we achieve peace in the Middle East? I contend that I have answered the question several times. I guess you missed it. The answer is being intellectually honest with each other. Has both sides of this conflict done some pretty evil things? Yes, they have. Is either side of this free from blame? No they are not. For every innocent Palestinian that has been killed, there is be a Jewish person killed. We can point at these atrocities all day everyday, but where will it take us? Nowhere, we will remain right here fighting and killing each other for another 100 years. Do you think this might have been the plan of the British all along? We need to start with intellectual honesty and move from there. Here is my peace plan
1. Both sides Jewish and Palestinians need to acknowledge the right of the other to exist
2. Both sides need to forgive what happened yesterday and focus on tomorrow
3. Israel need to pull back to the ’67 green line, and the independent State of Palestine created.
4. Jerusalem will be the capital of both nations with the city ruled by a 7 person panel elected from within the city consisting of 2 Jews, 2 Muslims, 2 Christians and 1 person at large (received the most votes) these elections will occur every 2 years.
5. Jerusalem will not be divided and travel throughout will not be restricted.
6. The temple mount will be free access to all.
7. Israel is to release all funds allotted for the Palestinians.
8. Israel is to give complete independence to Palestine without condition.
9. Palestine is to take complete independence without condition.
10. Palestine will be responsible for its own infrastructure. It will receive no aid from Israel unless Israel chooses to give it.
11. Israel will stop treating Palestine like a colony and Palestine will stop act like one.
12. There will be no right of return. If you want to live in Israel or Palestine, you will apply for the proper immigration.
13. If you, personally (not a parent or grandparent), have proof that you owned property in Israel or Palestine and you lost your home due to the conflict or the peace, you will be paid $60,000.00 USD for that property by the country your land was located.
I believe that this is an intellectually honest peace plan. Until Jews and Palestinians alike can be intellectually honest with themselves and each other there will be no peace in the Holy Land
All of us, Jew and Palestinian come to this room for the purpose of trying to find a way to make peace. I think that those of us, here in mepeace.org, have found that peace among ourselves. Everyday someone new comes into the organization. I am number 940. I see there are still factions among us, and some that just post articles about how evil the Jews are, and there are those who post articles on how evil the Palestinians are. There are a bunch of people who cannot see beyond the last bad thing that happened to our family. Except for Alice, I do not think there is a Jew or Palestinian that has not lost a family member, or property, or both because of this conflict. There is enough blame to go around for everyone. We have been fighting over control of this land since a British guy created the Balfour declaration, making a promise to the Jewish people that Israel will be a Jewish Homeland. Then another British guy came along with the White Papers, making a promise to give control of the land to the Arabs living here. The first major fight between us came in 1929, with what the Western history books call the Arab Uprising. Then there was the Jewish uprising, and back and forth and back and forth for the last 90 years. Prior to the British controlling the holy land, the Turks and Ottomans controlled the land. Therefore, the historical claim of the land, on both sides is weak, at best. Neither group of people prior to 1948 had majority control of the land for millennia.
Alice has brought us the story of Abir Aramin, and the work her father, Bassam, is doing with the combatants for peace to unite fighters from both side to try to find peace. The work they are doing is great and should be supported. Alice told me the other day of a video where it shows a Palestinian already in custody was shot dead by the IDF. People ask what Abir did to deserve such treatment by the IDF, to loose her life at 10 years old? She did nothing but walk out of a school. It is very sad that she had to give her life for this conflict. She did not even give it, it was taken from her she had no choice in the matter. Whether is was a bullet, a rubber bullet, a gas canister, or a rock thrown by a Palestinian (all the versions of how Abir died) it does not matter she was 10 years old and should not have died. If it were my daughter, I would be angry. I would demand to know why. I would want justice. Although, on the other side of the coin this happened; Three women were killed and at least 30 more people were injured when a bulldozer driven by a Palestinian resident of east Jerusalem trampled over pedestrians and vehicles and plowed into two buses in downtown Jerusalem at around noon Wednesday. If any of these women were my wife or daughter, I would be angry. I would demand to know why. I would want justice. The answer I would get would be that this was Israel’s fault. Israel forced this man to take a bulldozer and kill your wife. That is not true. This man worked for the city of Jerusalem. In a way, he was the government. Israel did not make him turn his bulldozer onto a crowd of people that were doing nothing more than shopping. This finger pointing can go on all day, and all night for the rest of our lives. We as Jews and Palestinians can sit here and point to what happened yesterday forever but it does not look at what we are going to do to make tomorrow better. It is intellectual dishonesty.
Alice started another thread talking about Apartheid. Jimmy Carter compared Israel to Apartheid South Africa. Apartheid is a very strong word. The main claim to the apartheid conditions in Israel from what I can tell is the checkpoints. Israel does not let Palestinians move freely throughout Israel and in and out of Gaza and the West Bank. To hear it described in the Israeli, and Palestinian media, Israel is the only country in the world that has checkpoints. To get from the ranch I mentioned earlier to where I live now I have to go through 5 checkpoints. Even in the United States, there are checkpoints where the Border Patrol and National Guard are stationed to ensure that the people going through the checkpoints have the proper permits to move through those checkpoints. They take drug dogs and bomb dogs around your vehicle looking for drugs and bombs. You have to tell these troops what you are doing, where you are going and what your purpose is. If you do not have the proper paperwork to be in the US you are arrested and sent back to where you belong. How is this any different than what is happening in Israel? If you do not have the paperwork to leave (Palestinian) or enter (Jewish) Gaza you are not allowed into Gaza. I have friends that used to own property in Gaza. It was taken away from them and they are not allowed to freely travel in Gaza. Is that apartheid on the part of Hamas? I know that one of the readers is going to say well Palestinians cannot get jobs in Israel. To answer that, I say, what about that guy who drove his bulldozer into a group of pedestrians? He had a job. Every country in the world has requirements before you are allowed to work in their country are required to agree to obey the laws of that country and get the required paperwork/permits to work there. When I lived in Turkey, I was required to carry around this little blue book everywhere I went. This blue book showed the authorities that I was in Turkey for work purposes. I am sure that there are other complaints about why Israel is an Apartheid state but I am already at 3 pages single spaced and I am not copying and pasting like some do. To call what is going on in Israel Apartheid is intellectually dishonest.
Like you said John, this thing is already 3 pages long single spaced and you have not answered the question you posed at the top of your babbling. How do we achieve peace in the Middle East? I contend that I have answered the question several times. I guess you missed it. The answer is being intellectually honest with each other. Has both sides of this conflict done some pretty evil things? Yes, they have. Is either side of this free from blame? No they are not. For every innocent Palestinian that has been killed, there is be a Jewish person killed. We can point at these atrocities all day everyday, but where will it take us? Nowhere, we will remain right here fighting and killing each other for another 100 years. Do you think this might have been the plan of the British all along? We need to start with intellectual honesty and move from there. Here is my peace plan
1. Both sides Jewish and Palestinians need to acknowledge the right of the other to exist
2. Both sides need to forgive what happened yesterday and focus on tomorrow
3. Israel need to pull back to the ’67 green line, and the independent State of Palestine created.
4. Jerusalem will be the capital of both nations with the city ruled by a 7 person panel elected from within the city consisting of 2 Jews, 2 Muslims, 2 Christians and 1 person at large (received the most votes) these elections will occur every 2 years.
5. Jerusalem will not be divided and travel throughout will not be restricted.
6. The temple mount will be free access to all.
7. Israel is to release all funds allotted for the Palestinians.
8. Israel is to give complete independence to Palestine without condition.
9. Palestine is to take complete independence without condition.
10. Palestine will be responsible for its own infrastructure. It will receive no aid from Israel unless Israel chooses to give it.
11. Israel will stop treating Palestine like a colony and Palestine will stop act like one.
12. There will be no right of return. If you want to live in Israel or Palestine, you will apply for the proper immigration.
13. If you, personally (not a parent or grandparent), have proof that you owned property in Israel or Palestine and you lost your home due to the conflict or the peace, you will be paid $60,000.00 USD for that property by the country your land was located.
I believe that this is an intellectually honest peace plan. Until Jews and Palestinians alike can be intellectually honest with themselves and each other there will be no peace in the Holy Land
posted by fish at 6:53 AM
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